#cw religion talk

[anoiinting]

blessed be ! i wanted to say that i love your blog so much & it’s exquisite as an exploring pagan/satanism nerd 🤍

hello, blessed be, and thank you! i'm an eclectic polytheist and a satanist myself, so that has a lot of influence in my aesthetics.. i hope you find a path that suits you and wish you best of luck with your spirituality :)

thank you for the ask, blessed be. ♡

[crystalsandbubbletea]

CW: Religion talk

(This is probably the only time I talk about my religion on this blog unless if people have questions-)

Well folks I should probably stop praying to my rain goddess for a while-

I asked for a light rain storm because I believed the grass needed it but instead I got a thunderstorm-

Normally I'm fine with thunderstorms but poor Squeak is terrified of them 😭

[z-1-wolfe]

happy pride :3 i offer religious trauma

[cruel-hiraeth]

if we think of the common extended metaphors used to describe love and sex—religion, violence, consumption—it’s apparent how we often weave these individual threads together when we talk about sharing a meal. it’s a sacred act, sitting down to break bread. there’s an intimacy in baring your hunger and indulging in front of someone else—only for them to witness and enjoy. there’s pleasure for both parties as both voyeurs and exhibitionists. and of course there’s a subtle violence to it all: stabbing and cutting food with utensils, tearing and crushing it with your teeth, consuming it; there’s a reason why eating with a lover is inherently erotic.

[goatgoesmbe]

naw but fr tho i think you've given me more knowledge in islamic sex ed than all my 12 years in school

I went to religious school since elementary and they didn't teach shit abt sex, except that one time about how to keep them coochie clean

So yea, i feel u bestie 😞🤝😞

I mostly asked a professor/ustad directly like, after the lecture i'd approach them to talk privately coz i wanna know what kind of sex toys would be halal 😄

.. eventually some who are used to me made this face like "omg.. this person again" when i raised my hand during qna session (im shameless, ive reached the peak of not gaf)

But i appreciate them for always answering seriously. Like this one time a kid asked if eating pork in Minecraft is halal lolol (it is Halal ofc LMAO)

and some others who were like, "you know what? Here's a whole guide so you can research them yourself"

So.. here ya go sksksk

Bismillah..

THE SOURCES (VERSES)

Can only be taken from:

Quran

Hadith

Prophet SAW besties (Shahabat) habit

Qiyas Syar'i

"But what are thosee 👀"

Quran: the words of God. Usually his response to the Prophet SAW. Like- they were having a convo, or God just wanted to yap. They're all recorded here. Like that whole verse about him saying fuck your psychotic uncle, or the other one about Him scolding the Prophet for his RBF

Hadith: the words and action of the Prophet SAW. In 1st person/3rd person

Split into: Shahih, Hasan, Dhaif, Maudhu

Shahih: valid, undebatable. He legit said that fr (he as in, the Prophet)

Hasan: means good, could be valid.. but one/some of the Rawi is sus.. it's ok tho

Dhaif: WEAK, some sources were questionable but some Rawi said valid- so this could be taken with a grain of salt FOR HISTORY SOURCES ONLY, it's NOT allowed to be the basis of a ruling

Maudhu: Fake, some guy legit said being a nationalist is Sunnah- lmao (bro made shit up)

*Rawi: scholars who confirmed the validity of hadith. Being a Rawi is very strict, they have to be perfect. For example they should never lie. So when i say a rawi is sus, sometimes it's coz someone saw them fishing (some said its Makruh coz ur lying to the fish :( by luring them with nomnom then yeet them u_u)

"But what if they lie about not lyin"

Wallahu'alam. We're taught to always assume positively about anyone except when there's a CONCRETE proof that this person is bad. And if the Rawi actually lie? Then they gonna bear the sins of everyone trusting their cited verses (everyone who followed the verses wouldn't be punished, coz obv they dunno if Rawi lie)

Prophet SAW besties habit: i think it's self explanatory- lol. This usually taken from hadith mauquf (hadith about words/action of the besties- 1st POV or 3rd POV)

This could be taken as verse- because they idolized the Prophet SAW so much so that they copied everything he does (including crouching when he pee- his wife told the besties it happened uh- yeah there's a verse about how to gain reward/avoid sin from pissing alone (Shahih Ahmad))

Qiyas Syar'i: scholars gathering and using their big brains to discuss the ruling for new stuff in modern time (period after the Prophet and his besties died). And since im no scholar, i usually just look up these discussion instead of using my own logic

Notes: these sources are preserved by bijillion people memorizing them. Hadith usually happened like this: A saw the Prophet eating chicken :O (Shahih Bukhari, 5517), A told B, B told C, etc etc (these are called Sanad). And then the Rawi will look it up and probably ask from A to C if that really happened, then the Rawi sorted them as Shahih, Hasan, etc. The Rawi era ended in year 920, no other people would be valid enough to be one in the present.. because well- how could you check if A really said to B.. they've been dead

More notes: it is important to preserve the verses in arabic. To avoid misscommunication due to mistranslation

THE RULING

THE OBJECTS: Halal & Haram

By nature, everything is Halal UNLESS there's an explicit verse saying they're not

Example: there's no verse about cigarette being haram. So the cigarette in itself is halal. But the use of it/smoking.. is another discussion for scholars

More example: Pork is haram (Al-Baqarah: 173).. to consume, trade, or serving them. Touching the meat is ok lol

"But 🙋 how about coccaine✨ there's no explicit verse saying coccaine"

Yes, but it counts as Khamr. Khamr doesn't necessarily means alcohol- but anything that could be intoxicating. Verse againt khamr: Al-Maidah: 90. There may be some scholars disputes (ofc using them for emergency/medical reason is ok.. like anaesthetic is khamr)

THE ACTION: Wajib, Sunnah/Mustabah, Mubah, Makruh, Haram

Wajib: Mandatory, you have to do it and get rewarded :D. If not, the you sinned >:(

Sunnah: Reccomended 👍, you do it? You get rewarded :D, you don't do it? It's ok

Mubah: Allowed, ..no reward, no sin.. just ok

Makruh: Not reccomended 🫤, you do it? Ok.. but if you resist the urge to do it you'd get rewarded :D

Haram: Obviously, don't do it coz it's a sin

For this, an act has to be explicitly stated in verses, whether it's ok or nah. Some might changes due to situations.. (for example: one time during the time of Caliphate Umar, they went thru famine, and the rich were greedy- not giving to people in need during it. So Umar said- U KNO WHAT, STEALING FROM THEM IS OK)

"But how do we knoww 😔"

Look up verses of Quran or Hadith Shahih/Hasan on google and such. Also opinions of valid scholars. Some might varies so make sure to look up if a Scholar is educated in that subject. It's ok to take any opinions to your liking even tho it's different from other scholar (example: most Indonesian scholar said music is halal.. with some exceptions ofc)

Also look at Tafsir! I reccomend avoiding trying to translate the meaning of verses by yourself, because mistranslation is a thing, also its usually worded in a way that it's hard to understand (old language be sophisticated ukno). So it's best to look up what scholars think this verses actually mean + the context of the situation and time when the verse happened (Tafsir)

Alright, enough of the boring stuff

✨SEX✨

Intimacy or any kind of affection to your spouse is an act of worship. So be horny 😌 for God 🫡

Foreplay is Sunnah (Al-Baqarah: 233). Scholars said: preceed with kind words, be playful, kisses, etc (Im saying that praise kink is Sunnah-)

Saying Bismillah and some prayers is Sunnah also, ..don't need to say it out loud, just mumbled it or said it in your head is ok too

Any positions is allowed as long as the penetration is into vagina

Any kind of anal penetration is not allowed :( (From Ibn Majah, hadith Sahih) a/n: lowkey funnyy how God said "NO ANAL" three times here-

But ☝️ Eating ass is ok 👍. Just dont penetrate with tongue/fingers/penis/etc. You can rub or grind between ascheeks, tease the rim with your tongue- these are probably Makruh.. but it's not a sin.. so :P

Period sex is not allowed (Al-Baqarah:222)

But ☝️ You 🫵 Can be creative. Like pussy job, stimulate clit, and the like- as long as theres not penetration to the bleeding cunt it's ok 👍 (probably Makruh)

Sex toys are okay 👍 but only for external stimulation, meaning- no penetration

Sex toys are also okay only if your partner is stimulating you with it, can't use it on yourself ;) (Again, some said Makruh, some said Haram)

Masturbation is not allowed (Al-Mu'minun 5-7, tafsir-ed by Syafii). But some scholars said that it's allowed if you're so horny it made you want to do things with someone who's not Halal for you (like that one Gazxreader mid-courting fic)

Though some scholars did say masturbation is allowed.. (but no penetration) makruh tho- it differs from variety on how scholars think the verse above meant. Some used the argument from verse (Al-An'am: 119) where it is said that anything needed to be said explicitly to be wrong/right in any verse- and masturbation never stated explicitly. Sees also opinions of Tabain, from Al-Muhalla by ibn Hazm- they're ok with it

Bondage and other kinks are allowed if both parties are consenting and had communicate it properly. And it shouldn't cause emotional distress/physical harm

..If anything, indulging in your partner kink is Sunnah :D

Giving each other head is okay, but not reccomended. Just don't swallow :3 (some said Makruh, some Haram)

Pulling out (azl) and using condom etc is ok 👍 but breeding kink is Sunnah (especially when the receiver is into it :3)

..Yes you can suck tiddy and drink the milk

..Yes you can fuck with hijab on praying mattress

..Yes you can use prayer beads as toys, dunno how but.. be creative(?) (still no penetration)

Sexting/Phone Sex is allowed. But either parties are not allowed to masturbate (some said Makruh, some said Haram). Though, both scholars said it's ok if you cum from it somehow with no hands involved/toys (again, some said Makruh some said Haram for the latter)

If you're not ashamed of it.. then do it ig (Said the Prophet, from Shahih Bukhari: 3483)

But it's reccomended to have haya and not be filthy (not a sin tho)

Scat and piss kink isn't allowed because the object (piss&shit) themselves are considered najis (dirty)

Penetrative sex & Orgasm break your fast! But making out and heavy petting is ok (edging is ok ehehe- probably Makruh tho). There's a verse about the Prophet kissing his wife, sucked her tongue, and drank her saliva- which means that doesn't break your fast.. (Shahih Bukhari: 1927)

But if you cum by accident.. like idk, in your sleep, or just somehow- it wouldn't break your fast. Just bathe

You need to bathe before praying if you had sex/orgasm

You don't need to bathe immediately after sex/orgasm

If you want to go another round, it's Sunnah to take wudhu between rounds

If you get aroused, leaking precum, getting wet and such- but didnt have an orgasm- you don't need to bath, just take wudhu

Both parties aren't allowed to talk about their sexy times with other people except for educational/medical purposes

Watching visual pornography is Haram due to the nature of us having to avert our gaze anyway

But reading text porn is a grey area. Either Makruh or Haram

Having nasty thoughts is alright, God made us horny as He stated. It's what you do with those thoughts that would be judged

Voyeorism isnt allowed. Due to the nature of awrah. Sexy times only allowed in private places

Holding hands kissing with tongue snuggling cuddling PDA is allowed tho

and uh.. idk what else, lmk if i miss anything

Just don't get too freaky ;)

Pregnancy sex is alright, as long as it wouldn't harm anybody

If you do any of the forbidden stuff byy accident, like- oh no.. Gaz 👀 wrong hole..

That's not a sin, coz you didnt intent to- but yes do immediately stop when you realized it

And dont feel bad, God is mercifull so repent

Notes: Sin with God and Sin because you hurt people are different. Let's say you ate pork on purpose, then repent and promised to not do it again. But if you hurt someone, you have to get their apology specifically. If not, there would be consequences in the day of judgement. (Rawi Muslim)

Example: Fulan stole his sister's Muffin from the fridge. It's Sunnah for the sister to forgive, she would be greatly rewarded. But if she couldnt help and hold grudges, both would be called forward. An angel would ask if she forgave her brother, if she said yea then cool. But if not, then Fulan has to give one of his pahala (reward/good deeds point) to his sister. And of course, anyone wouldn't just offend one person in their life.. so every each person who had grudges towards Fulan would alsoo be called forward then asked the same question. If Fulan is hated by sooo many people- to the point he has no pahala anymore :(, then the next person gonna give Fulan one of their sin, etc, vice versa.

So.. God may be merciful, but people (me) aren't. Someone could be really good religious wise but is an ass towards people in general, in that case, their good deeds from religious duty is useless *cough*mom*cough* (from Sahih Muslim: 2581)

This is a reminder to be kind 😌 "Speak only good words, or keep silent" or something along those lines (Shahih Bukhari: 6018)

Feel free to ask questions in my inbox/dm- but again! Im no scholar! Just a student :3 So i just gonna offer the opinions of scholars i gathered

Asking questions is reccomended in Islam

Even the Angels themselves who are made to be obedient- asked God when He said he wanted to make humans.

They basically said "Art thou sure?, They're just gonna kill each other and destroy earth". God answered "Yeah ik. Now kneel at them" (Al-Baqarah: 32-37)

Wallahu'alam

[cherry-pop-elf]

Burdens of being a Lokean

Vent post ignore me bleh

And a reach out to fellow Norse Pagans for advice

Ugh. It’s hard to practice being Pagan sometimes. Especially of the Norse variety. And most definitely especially as Lokean. Any means to get materials to practice is full of marvel content. So saturated it makes it near impossible to find what I need

Don’t get me started on how unserious people like us who practice things like Norse Paganism are treated. People treat those who practice Greek paganism more serious than us. Don’t lie, you’ve seen it

And the people who only consume marvel Norse content that try and correct you on your own religion

I just wanted to practice my beliefs in peace. I want to be able to get materials from reliable sources that have their best interest in me. Not AI money grabs. Not people selling “love spells” or just bullshit people who want easy money by taking advantage of people’s beliefs

Is there any advice on how to get reliable sellers and resources for my craft? I want to practice my belief but there’s just so little I can do. I’m a Hoosier and well. Indiana is famous for the KKK after all

Any reliable sellers? People? Just. People who take being a Lokean serious? And don’t call us devil worshippers? And just insult Mother Loki every chance they get?

I’ll never forget that time I was at a cosplay convention and the topic of religion brought up and I was told to “never trust Loki. Protect yourself. He is a liar and promises you pain and suffering-“ and just went on a rant about how wrong I was

I chose Loki because he chose me dammit!

Everyone follows their own path in life. From you believing in a god to people who don’t at all. You are deserving to practice what you feel. It’s YOUR laugh. YOUR path. Everyone has a path

Just please. Help? I want to make a proper alter and practice my beliefs

I get chaos comes with the job, but sir the winds turn eventually 😭

Sincerely yours, a baby witch that’s suffering

[valer13sval3ntine]

i had a dream about charlie slimecicle having a photoshoot posing as jesus christ and i thought it was real and i woke up and was so sad it wasnt, SO I MADE THIS IN 5 MINUTES

[smalltowncryptidfucker]

GUYS

I just listened to “Confessions of a Rotten Girl”, and MY GOD- as someone who has VIVID memories of literally sitting in the middle of a sermon at my childhood church, trying to convince myself to like heteronormative ships so I won’t be “sinful” anymore, this song made me weirdly emotional???

Especially as someone who ended up being bisexual and genderqueer and very NOT Christian… god damn this song really encapsulates that feeling of utter shame and desperation to be “normal”, perfectly. Kudos to the song creators, I will be listening to it on repeat forever.

[dunmeshistash]

Something about the demon, the Winged Lion, made me think he could be a (fallen?) angel. The infinite energy dimension would then, of course be heaven. Made sense the elves didn't want people binding angels and sucking power out of heaven! I don't know where Kui would've gone with this, but I've wanted to see Japanese takes on biblical stuff ever since Neon Genesis Evangelion.

I think since everything in Dungeon Meshi is very intertwined with "nature" there isn't much of "divine" in that sense of a heaven or hell, after all Demon is just one of the names people call him doesn't mean he's our concept of a Demon.

I don't think anything in that sense would fit within the Dungeon Meshi universe, the demon's dimension couldn't be considered heaven because it is completely different from our universe, humans don't go there when they die and nothing indicates some sort of "creator god" inhabits that universe, when the demon first got into their dimension their world already existed so he's not god in that sense either nor a sort of angel since the whole dimension he comes from is made of "him". Magic in that world is part of nature so his powers are part of (a twisted) nature and not part of the divine? Although for some people nature is divine but I'm talking about divine in the biblical sense I guess, not that I understand much about that.

So it's not that the demon is divine in my opinion it's that it's nature is alien to ours, it's a different existence.

The Winged Lion is considered a Deity for the Golden Kingdom people so it's not like there isn't anything linking him to that (he also gave them visions of Laios and a prophecy to send them to him right?) plus the name "Demon" itself and at the end he does suck up everyone into his dimension so they would have every wish granted and that sounds a lot like a heaven of sorts, so I'm not saying there's nothing there but hopefully you get what I meant? Nothing against that reading tho.

If you wanna see anime takes on biblical stuff (angels demons satan etc) maybe you'd like to check Devilman Crybaby that was fun to watch for me (look at a trigger list if you're squeamish tho, it's R18 and lots of fucked up stuff happen)

Or idk that Jesus anime (I haven't watched)

[peridotglimmer]

11 hours from now I'll be doing my belijdenis (similar to Lutheran Confirmation). I'm totally not freaking out.

[moldypoff]

Ain’t it ironic how conservative parent(s) (<- mine at least) will complain about how LGBTQ+ community harms kids because they shouldn’t even be thinking about sexuality at their age but then they take their kids to church and they made they make them sit though a sermon about how God only wants men and women marriages because they need to ‘populate the earth with God’s children’.

[goatgoesmbe]

Hijab question! Do you have to wear hijab around your house? And like i know youre supposed to cover your hair if guys are around so does that include dad, brothers, son, etc? (I read the gaz thing where you mention not knowing he was over for tea cus he bestied up your dad and it was his first look he was looking and i was like oh that would be scary if you weren’t veiled either cus you just didnt know your dad had him over lol)

No i dont have to :3c

So.. places in general, from what i taught by my professor- split to two: private and public

For public places, you have to cover- except youre sure noone else would enter that place

For private places, (ur home, ur car, etc) u dont have to- and if someone elses walked in and saw you- neither of you sinned, but they have to get away asap. Also, they have to explicitly ask for permission to enter anyone's private places.. (..ehehe): An-Nur: 27. There's also a verse about anyone who peeked into anyone private places- it's ok to stab them in the eyes until they're blind :) (Shahih Bukhari: 6393)

For kids and mahram are alright. Kids don't sin, nor that it's mandatory for them to follow any ruling. (Warning: there's a fake verse going around about parents bearing their children's sins before puberty. They don't)

That doesn't mean it's ok to be nude around them lol (except for emergency, medical reason, etc). You have to cover from below belly button to above your knees (again, scholar opinion varies, but mostly agreed to this)

By kids, in Islam it means anyone who hasn't hit puberty. Or if they never hit puberty- then the age would be after 17 (Syafii Mahzab anyway, it differs)

By mahram, it means anyone who's blood related/related by marriage:

Brothers, dads, etc are ok 👍

uncles and aunts from both side are ok 👍

Spouses of said uncle/aunt aren't ok (coz not blood related/marriage related to you) 👎

Grandparents and above are ok 👍

Parents in law are ok 👍

but siblings in law aren't 👎

Parents' in law's siblings aren't ok 👎

Your children/grandchildren/etc and their spouses are ok 👍

Your children in laws and above aren't 👎

Cousins, no 👎 (thats why some people married their cousin)

Step dad yes 👍

Step brother yes 👍 (after ur parent and his fuck.. idk how u know tho, uh-)

There's also a thing about being related by breastmilk✨. So if a baby below 2 years old, drinks your mom's milk continuously until they're full- or some scholars said 5 times minimum- that baby became your mahram. You can't marry them even when they're not blood related- and you can unveil yea

*mahram by marriage privilege would be taken away after divorce

I think this might get confusing 💀 ill come back with a graph later (its 2 am)

A/n: that fic is inspired by my dad AND mom who never informed me if there are guests in the house. Idk the ruling, but im sure it's very reccomended for them to tell me first GDI. Rn, I'm used to it and just rolled my eyes before putting on hijab- usually it's the men who accidentally saw me who were panicking (one time, he screamed and ran.. like ok)

[agentearthling]

every time I find myself going back into a Mormon church building (never by choice I may add) I get hit with such an intense wave of uncomfortable deja vu but I also feel like I've lost something? like in a bittersweet nostalgic way. and at first I thought I wanted to go back and couldn't figure out WHY until I realized I just missed being sure of something. obviously now I know I was wrong about all of that but there's comfort in "knowing" your place in the universe even if it's not a place u wanna be. feeling like someone else is looking out for you and you don't have to be in charge. of course it wasn't worth it but I do miss the security and community sometimes. leaving the church is so freeing but it's also fucking terrifying and difficult to figure out how to be your own human

[agenderboy]

A LOT OF WEIRD UNEDITED PROBABLY REPETITIVE RAMBLINGS AHEAD

funnily enough, my pkmn au does have religious characters in it technically.

it's less the "goes to church" type of stuff and more worshippers of specific legendaries/mythicals in their own ways (depending on the family and whatnot too). it's generally accepted that Arceus/pkmn god is a real entity but each individual may have different opinions on Arceus' relations to humans and it's 'true form' and such.

Some people pray to the mythicals of the Lakes (like Platinum). some don't pray to any legendary/mythical but still have respect for them (like Saturn). some think they're better than legendaries (like Giovanni and Ghetsis).

there are also different ways that count as an acceptable way to worship. some people think it's wise to offer the legendary/mythical some kind of.... well, offering. even if, for example, it's just pebbles or some water from the lakes (back to azelf uxie and mespirit again sorry). some think you need to pray in specific ways or in specific places, others think it doesn't really matter.

brain's fried that's where I'm ending this rant

[thepringlesofblood]

An Attempt at Explaining Bulbian Church Theology

so I watched ACOC a year or two ago, and I watched TRW as it came out, and now I’m going back and re-watching ACOC with that context in mind, and I have many questions.

a few disclaimers

this shit rules. it’s wild how much thought and effort Brennan & Matt put into Bulbian theology and the history and inner workings of the church. at no point am I implying anything to the contrary. this is “tf, guys? (affectionate)” not “tf, guys? (derogatory)”

the order of things is fucked up bc prequel, and bc Matt necessarily did a bunch of it w/out Brennan bc he was a PC. some things have the simple Doylist explanation of “Brennan didn’t think they were ever coming back to that bit” or “it’s a metric fuckload of lore written several years before Matt came onto the project, of course some things are going to contradict.” I know and agree with these reasons. I am coming at this from as Watsonian a perspective as I can - trying to find in-world reasons for things rather than real-life reasons - because I think it’s a fun thought exercise.

at no point am I talking shit about either Brennan or Matt. ik people have a lot of feelings about Matt’s DMing in TRW, but I think he did great, and he added some fascinating new lore about the theology of Calorum which I am eager to sink my teeth into. he seems like a cool dude, he and Brennan wrote some extremely cool lore, and that’s all I’ll say about that.

so. let’s get crack-a-lackin’

Let’s define our terms.

we got our two Big Terms from ACOC - the Prophidian Heresy and the Ramsian Doctrine. The Prophidian Heresy is the only one to re-appear in TRW, as the Prophidian Theodicy. this is bc it was not declared to be heresy (aka fake/against the church’s beliefs) yet, so it was just another theory within the church

we’ve got about four big factions, very unequal in power:

Belizabeth Brassica (& the church under her rule)

the Sanctis Putris

the Archbishop Camille Colliflour (aka the Avatar of Deus Pa’Zuul)

The Few Good Individuals in The Church*

we’re mostly talking about Brassica and Sanctis Putris.

*Saint Citrina, local churches in Candia, certain Bulbians in the Dairy Islands, individual churches here and there across the continent that are mentioned as rejecting the Ramsian Doctrine in ACOC.

The Prophidian Heresy/Theodicy

What it says:

The Hungry One is just as powerful as The Bulb

Reasoning:

this is an attempt to explain the questions of “if the Bulb is good and all-powerful, why are there bad things in the world? If the Bulb is more powerful than the Hungry One, why hasn’t it beat the shit out of him yet, if it is truly a force for good?”

What it means in the world:

this is a part of Brassica’s plot to start the apocalypse, but is not the most important thing for her.

It is however important for the beliefs of the Sanctis Putris, who fight to keep the Hungry One at bay.

Questions/observations:

In ACOC Ep.13, when Brennan first mentions the Sanctis Putris, he describes them as “an order of the Church that did not subscribe to the Prophidian Heresy at all. It looks like they are not about the Ramsian Doctrine and causing the apocalypse.”

I think this is a mixing up of words, and that he meant to say “the Ramsian Doctrine” both times, since the Sanctis Putris is against the Ramsian Doctrine. at this point in the campaign the two beliefs have gotten kind of conflated bc they’re both part of the big Brassica Apocalypse Plot.

the in-world explanation could be that after the war the Sanctis Putris pivoted to a different belief - perhaps that the Hungry One is more powerful than the Bulb. very interesting...

in TRW ep 3 Colliflour says “We know the clarity of the Prophidian Theodicy and the terrible shadow that grows outside of the Bulb's light”

so we do know that before the war at least the Sanctis Putris were into it.

The Ramsian Doctrine

What it says:

The Hungry One cannot be destroyed and the final salvation of all souls cannot occur until the Hungry One devours the world

Some souls are healthy and delicious, but some are unhealthy and garbage - Junk Food (Candians)

The Junk Food souls prevent the Hungry One from devouring the world because it wants a “healthy meal” 

Reasoning:

in order to work towards this prized final salvation of all souls and destruction of the Hungry One, one must first work towards the apocalypse. Junk Food must be eradicated from the world for that to happen - whether by conversion to the Bulbian faith* or by death.

*it’s at least implied by Calroy’s letter to Brassica in ep. 13 that since he “renounced his pagan ways” and wants to be re-baptized in the Bulbian faith, he gets to live. whether this is true or not we do not find out.

What it means in the world:

This is the excuse Brassica needs to invade and destroy Candia and its magic. Fun fact: she was actually planning to launch a crusade on the Meatlands too before she got got.

Meat isn’t junk food (i don’t think??), so it’s clear that what she’s really after is destroying the rest of Calorum’s ability to access magic - making it so they have to go through the church to get “miracles” rather than using the magic of the deities in their homelands. that’s not Ramsian, it’s just Brassica being power-hungry and mean.

In regards to the Sanctis Putris, they believe they are preventing the apocalypse by bringing rot and mold into the world. they don’t want the Hungry One to devour the world, and since they believe the Hungry One is as powerful as the Bulb, they want to work to bring mold and rot into the world themselves, to give the Bulb a leg up on the opposition, so to speak.

so, the idea that the Hungry One could devour the world, and that that would be a sort of apocalypse, is shared between Brassica and the Sanctis Putris. the difference is, Brassica wants that to happen so the Bulb can finally defeat the Hungry One, and the Sanctis Putris does not want that to happen, so they bring mold and rot into the world so the Hungry One can’t devour it.

Questions/observations:

So while it sounds kind of like the Sanctis Putris are buying into the last tenant of the Ramsian Doctrine - that the Hungry One will only eat a “healthy meal” - they’re not buying into the rest of it, because their definition of “healthy” is different from the one outlined in the rest of the Ramsian Doctrine. The Sanctis Putris don’t seem to care about “Junk Food”, just rot & mold.

TRW ep. 3 Colliflour: “Through prosperity and peace, Calorum becomes ripe and pliable. It becomes the perfect meal to forever roil and burn within its belly. The hidden scripture, the Festered Tome, it holds the truth that will save us all. The Hungry One will not eat that which is spoiled...Only through death can the lands be stained and unclean. Only through rot can the world be saved and endure under the Great Bulb's light”

the Sanctis Putris depend on conflict vs peace and rot vs growth across the whole of Calorum, while the Ramsian Doctrine depends upon specific people (Candians) being eradicated

in ACOC ep. 13 Brennan says this “The correspondence between the Archbishop Oliver Onionpatch and the Sanctus Putris saying the Sanctus Putris has located the home and high temple of the Sugar-Plum Fairy, and have found the Ice Cream Temple. The date they give, they say that their expedition should arrive there the morning of Harvest Dawn the seventh”

onion boy is a Brassica lackey - a Ramsian. swapping letters with the Sanctis Putris, famously anti-Ramsian. ???

my question is this - why are the Sanctis Putris running errands for Brassica if they have fundamentally opposing beliefs? why are they sending out an expedition on the orders of someone trying to start an apocalypse that they’re trying to prevent?

3 potential reasons

blackmail - Brassica says “I am the head of the Church, this is what’s happening, put up or shut up. Do what I want or I eradicate you”

quid pro quo - a favor for a favor, Brassica is giving them something in exchange for them doing this for her

common enemy

it serves the Sanctis Putris to have the Church be more powerful since a lot of their people are in the Church, and of course it serves Brassica to empower the Church. Killing the Sugar Plum Fairy is one way to do that.

im uncertain though, as the Sanctis Putris has people from all over the place, and potentially at least one Candian who is against it.

although, if the Sanctis Putris intend to split with Brassica, if may also not serve them to have the Church be more powerful.

Compare/contrasting Brassica v Sanctis Putris

Both beliefs are Prophidian, since for the Hungry One to eat everything it would need to be at least equal in power to the Bulb (both groups believe in the Bulb’s inherent goodness, and that if it had the power it would stop the Hungry One from doing this).

Both see themselves as helping the Bulb overpower the Hungry One, Brassica by causing the Apocalypse and the Sanctis Putris by preventing it.

Both identify an aspect of the world that is preventing the Hungry One from devouring it. Brassica points to “junk food”, while the Sanctis Putris points to mold and rot.

I saw a post a while back that positioned the two terms as Belizabeth Brassica’s beliefs vs the beliefs of the Sanctis Putris. This is not the case. 

The Ramsian Doctrine [in its totality] is exclusive to Brassica, yes, but the Prophidian Heresy does not encompass the totality of the beliefs of the Sanctis Putris. It just says that the Hungry One is as powerful as the Bulb. the rest of their shit is their own. 

the Sanctis Putris do subscribe the last tenant of the Ramsian Doctrine (that the Hungry One wants a healthy meal), but interpret “healthy” as meaning something else, so I wouldn’t say their beliefs are Ramsian overall, even if one idea overlaps. 

plus, Brassica also needs the Prophidian Heresy to exist, since it offers a reason for why the Bulb doesn’t just come down and make everything better - it can’t, since it and the Hungry One are equal in power.

now where the fuck does Deus Pa’Zuul fall into this?

Brennan described the feeling of discovering Deus Pa’Zuul as “eldritch horror” and frankly I agree. A lot of the genre of eldritch horror revolves around the unknown, and specifically the unknowable, so as a result we the audience know very little about it.

What we do know

it’s a garbage disposal, and all the implications that carries, included but not limited to

the place you dispose of rotten food

the physical description - blades, tearing, ripping, whirring

it is a force of pure destruction. the things it destroys are erased from existence. there is no eternity in the Hungry One’s stomach, no salvation in the light of the Bulb, you just end.

it can interact with the world of Calorum through visions and impart magic like the Bulb and the Hungry One do, but does so very, very rarely.

The only two Calorans we know of that it ever contacted directly were Colliflour and Raphaniel.

the rest of the Sanctis Putris had no clue that this was where their leader was taking them - Gemelli straight up fights it.

Speculations

while Colliflour certainly seems to think it fits into the main cosmology of the universe, it feels very clear, to me at least, that it does not.

the Hungry One and the Bulb have next to no physical manifestations in the world of Calorum the way Deus Pa’Zuul does.

sure, a spell might sound like a stomach rumble or emit holy light, but no one ever turns into a lightbulb.

The closest thing is that the Bulb is the Sun, but it remains untouchable and unknowable (until some crazy ass pepper shaker makes a spaceship or something).

the physicality of it makes me feel like it’s a smaller, though no less deadly, force than the Bulb and Hungry One.

there’s also the specificity - we’ve seen the magic of Bulb and Hungry One alike do a million different things. Deus Pa’Zuul’s magic seems less flexible - we only really hear it described or emphasized when Raphaniel casts a more destructive spell, like Shatter, and of course in the finale when it took over Colliflour’s body and the room around them.

(this is also probably bc TRW was a way shorter campaign and thus had much less opportunity to show off new fun ways for it to wreck shop)

The Bulb and the Hungry One are balanced - creation and destruction, light and dark. Deus Pa’Zuul feels like an extraplanar monster. I’d say “demon” but that implies that it’s working for the Hungry One, as he’s the Caloran equivalent of the Devil.

but then again, is that incorrect? in-world, it certainly feels separate from Bulb and Hungry One alike. but if we think about the implications of real-life garbage disposals...people are the ones that operate and control them. if the Hungry One is a person, he would be the one controlling what (and who) the disposal grinds up.

Finally, we have the Few Good Individuals in the Church. 

Saint Citrina, in the limited scenes we have from her, 

encourages Amethar to follow his heart and not divorce Catherine Ghee if he loves her.

creates a holy relic that forces you to tell the truth

has an argument with Archmage Lazuli about the goings-on with the Order of the Spinning Star

Queen Pamelia says in TRW ep. 1 - “Citrina and myself and many others have taken quite lovingly to the Book of Leaves. We just are careful with which sects of the church wish to impose disparate law and rule upon how we worship.”

later we see her sort of disagreeing with her mom as she is steered away from Raphaniel though, and we don’t really know what’s in the Book of Leaves, except that Saint Citrina enchanted it to force truth-telling at some point before her death.

is “useful” to Calroy and his conspirators until Brassica orders her killed. So, one can assume she was anti-Ramsian in some way.

We know that Primsy and most Dairy Islanders are Bulbian, but don’t get much of their specific beliefs. 

There is the scene in the Abbey of the Shimmering Cream with Saccharina, where we basically just learn that that abbey (and potentially area in general) is extremely anti-magic and terrible. We don’t get anything about their feelings vis-a-vis the Ramsian Doctrine though.

Primsy opposes the Ramsian Doctrine & Brassica in general once she hears about it though, so one can assume that she and the people around her don’t prioritize or agree with that in their worship.

We know Caramelinda is Bulbian, and she married Archmage Lazuli, so presumably she does not have the same issues with her use of “pagan” magic as Saint Citrina may have. 

Other than that we don’t have a lot on her religious beliefs, except that she wasn’t super stoked about Saccharina as Queen, but I think that was less because of her magic and more because of how violently anti-Bulbian and generally chaotic Saccharina is.

When Brassica’s whole Ramsian Doctrine plan gets set into motion, she gets a whole bunch of letters from churches across the continent that are like “um no??? please don’t cause the apocalypse??”, mostly from Candians (who we can assume are generally anti-Ramsian because they don’t want to die) but also from all the other countries.

So. There we go. Lmk if there’s any inconsistencies or anything ^v^

[taffywabbit]

Hey, sorry if this is a bit personal of a question, but I was in your stream last night when you were talking about dreams and mentioned being raised Mormon, and I'm curious: do you find yourself avoiding people who go to that church, or do you have friends from that time who still go that you keep up with? Do you find yourself in good company who respect your decision to leave or do you encounter mostly hostility?

honestly I'm not really sure! as someone who mostly socializes online these days as an openly queer leftist furry, I can't say I really run into any active church members very often haha. we don't really run in the same circles at all. the only ones I do still see are at family gatherings or whatever (most of my extended family are mormon too, and tbh I'm not even quite sure how many of them actually know i quit church 5 years ago - I get the feeling my parents didn't go around announcing it to everyone lol)

I do definitely avoid people I already used to know through church though. my old FB messages are full of unopened "hey how are things?" messages from former missionary companions and ppl from the young adult congregation I used to attend at the start of college, because (at least with the latter) i know my name probably came up in a meeting and they got assigned to reach out to me and figure out why i left church and how to get me back. I don't really bear ill will towards those people themselves, but I was in that church for 20+ years and I know EXACTLY how much persistence and borderline stalking the members are tasked with under the guise of "outreach" and "service". I've been on the other side of those meetings and efforts enough times. people talk about it being hard to leave for a reason, so I didn't take any chances. removed my contact info from the church directory, ignored any calls and texts I got, ghosted the guys I used to play D&D with, and obviously didn't tell anyone when I moved. I do think about some of the people I knew as a missionary or in that YSA branch fondly sometimes and wonder how they're doing, but I simply can't risk letting myself become known to the church again or I'll have missionaries showing up at my door to use all of their specially-trained 18yo guilt-tripping abilities to bring me back.

(all of this being said, my immediate family is at least a lot more accepting of my decision nowadays than most extended family members or other mormons who know I left the church. they were pretty upset when they first found out - tbf I HAD been openly lying to them for a few months before I decided to break the news - but I think at some point after seeing me in person again after a few years had passed, they saw i hadn't immediately become a meth dealer or whatever and seemed happy and stable and decided not to push the issue. they don't ask me to pray with them or attend church when I visit anymore, but they do still talk openly about their responsibilities in church because they know i understand what they're talking about, and I'm fine with that. as long as they don't put my current address and phone number back into the church directory, we're cool for the time being - at least until I come out to them, which might make things more complicated lol)